Conscious Mental Health
For Curious Clients and Conscious Clinicians: We’re shaking things up for season 3! Join co-hosts Laurel and Juniper as they step away from the therapy room and dive into candid conversations about the world around us. From weekly roundups to deep dives and everything in between, we’ll explore current topics, share our personal experiences, and offer insights through the lens of clinicians who aren’t afraid to get real.
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Conscious Mental Health
Unmasking Therapy First: The Myths and Realities of Gender Exploratory Therapy (PART 1)
‼️Content warning for sensitive discussions regarding the LGBTQ community. ⚠️
What is Gender Exploratory Therapy, and why is it raising concern amongst therapists and LGBTQ+ advocates? In part 1 of our series, Juniper and Laurel, delve into Therapy First, the organization behind this controversial model. We examine its claims about "exploratory care", and gender-critical approaches, and discuss its implications for trans and gender-diverse communities.
🎙️ Introduction to Gender Exploratory Therapy (00:58 - 02:11)
📚 Interviews and Perspectives (04:12 - 05:12)
🧐 Exploration of Therapy First (05:12 - 09:23) (05:12 - 09:23)
⚖️ Understanding Gender Affirmative vs. Exploratory Therapy (09:23 - 18:38) (09:23 - 18:38)
🔄 The False Binary in Therapy Approaches (18:38 - 27:36) (18:38 - 27:36)
🚫 Discouragement of Transitioning (27:36 - 37:51) (27:36 - 37:51)
🛑 Conversion Therapy Discussion (37:51 - 47:57) (37:51 - 47:57)
📊 Research and Evidence (or lack thereof) in GET (47:57 - 56:06)
🌐 Conclusion (56:06 - 01:07:12)
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Speaker 1 - 00:00
This one's gonna be a doozy.
Speaker 2 - 00:02
I don't know if I'm ready. And I said that in, like, a joking tone, but I kind
of actually don't know if I'm ready because they're so, like, my head is
swimming. After two weeks of being, like, neck.
Speaker 1 - 00:17
Deep in all of this, so immersed, for the listeners who aren't watching
the video, you might just imagine the biggest dark circles under my
eyes, because, like you said, being neck deep in this topic has been a lot
more taxing than I thought it would.
Speaker 2 - 00:33
Yeah, it's. I think it started out as, like, a special interest that I was like,
oh, wow, this is fascinating. And now it's just, like, all consuming, and I
feel like there's no bottom to this. Well, like, every time I find a fact or,
like, find a connection, there's just more and more. I don't think it ever
ends. I think it's a bottomless pit. A black hole.
Speaker 1 - 00:57
Yes. This is the Conscious Mental Health Podcast for curious clients and
conscious clinicians. This podcast is for informational purposes only and
should not be considered health. I'm Juniper, licensed clinical social
worker and mental health educator.
Speaker 2 - 01:14
And I'm Laurel, licensed professional counselor and a mental health
educator.
Speaker 1 - 01:18
We are here today with dark circles under our eyes because we have
been neck deep in gender exploratory therapy. I'm speechless, truly.
Speaker 2 - 01:28
I will say, like, I think this is a really important episode, and I'm glad
we're doing it. I don't want to, like, avoid having the conversation just
because it seems overwhelming. But also, I would give, like, a content
warning because we're going to be talking about some things that are or
could be pretty upsetting, especially if you're a person in the LGBTQ
community. If you're a trans person or you have loved ones who are
trans, I would just offer to take good care of yourself and just know
there's gonna be a lot of conversation about some tough subjects under
this umbrella today.
Speaker 1 - 02:10
I think we should start with the origin story of why we even got into this
in the first place. Like, what. What brought our attention to gender
exploratory therapy that also goes by many names?
Speaker 2 - 02:24
Well, as so many unfortunate rabbit holes do begin, our story begins on
Facebook. If you're watching the YouTube video, you can see our
beautiful board behind us. We are going to be using this as, like, one of
those. What would you call it? Like, investigative maps.
Speaker 1 - 02:43
Yeah, I was like, Detective String, csi. Yeah, we had to do it. So if you're
listening on the pod if you want to see the board, please check us out on
YouTube.
Speaker 2 - 02:55
As it all started, it started on Facebook.
Speaker 1 - 02:58
On Facebook.
Speaker 2 - 03:00
Thanks, Mark. So I am in a number of therapy networking, therapist
networking groups on Facebook as a part of my job here and just
connecting with people and sharing resources. And one day, I don't know
how was. How long ago was it? Like a couple of months ago, maybe it
was even back in the spring, I stumbled upon someone requesting
resources for working with a trans client. And someone had commented
this resource that I had never seen and it was called Therapy First. A
couple of other folks had commented underneath that resource, saying
things like, please be careful. This is a transphobic organization. I don't
recommend them. This is a dangerous model. It's conversion therapy.
Speaker 2 - 03:50
And I had never heard of Therapy first, but we're going to talk about it
because they certainly are out there and very professional looking and
sounding and are actually influencing a ton of public policy both in the
United States and in many other countries right now.
Speaker 1 - 04:12
Yeah, yeah, hello. Editing Juniper here. We just wanted to share that for
this deep dive, we interviewed both clients and clinicians that have
either received therapy in the realm of gender or identity and also who
have been therapist in that realm. So Nick was our client interview and
we interviewed Amy, Marie and Megan, who are all three clinicians. And
we also interviewed an endocrinologist working in the space of gender
affirming care. However, after the election, the hospital that they worked
at decided that they didn't want any of their physicians or employees
doing any public interviews due to safety concerns. So we will share
some of the resources, but we will not be sharing any of that interview to
protect the safety and preference of that endocrinologist. We really
wanted to offer various perspectives on the topic of gender exploratory
therapy and gender affirming therapy.
Speaker 1 - 05:21
So in this episode, you'll be hearing again from Nick, Marie, Amy and
Megan. We're also going to share a ton of clips directly from the trainers
and therapists in Therapy first and their other organizations. So we're
going to share from their podcast, we're going to share from some of
their webinars. And all the information that we're sharing is public
domain. We're utilizing this for educational purposes. Okay. So we asked
Amy and Marie if they'd ever heard of Therapy first or gender
exploratory therapy. Hi, this is Marie Coma Thompson, lpcc. I have not
heard of Therapy first other than Juniper mentioning it the other day. And
I haven't heard specifically of Gender Explorer Exploratory therapy.
Speaker 2 - 06:08
My name is Amy Halvorson.
Speaker 1 - 06:10
I'm a licensed clinical social worker with.
Speaker 2 - 06:13
A focus on treating trauma. I have not heard of the organization therapy
first. I have also not heard of gender.
Speaker 1 - 06:23
Exploratory therapy and I hadn't either. And when you alerted me to this
organization and then I started looking into it, when you first go onto the
website, I'm like, okay, yeah, this doesn't feel explicitly anti trans.
Speaker 2 - 06:38
No, it doesn't. It, they, it's very, they do a really interesting job and I
think like a pretty good job of sounding very reasonable, very middle
ground, like walking a neutral sort of a line or offering this sort of
comforting sounding language around why they use the model that they
use. That really makes sense if that's all you see. But when you start to
dig deeper, it starts to become to me a lot more troubling. The front
page of their website is it says psychotherapy as first line treatment for
gender dysphoria. We are here to help.
Speaker 1 - 07:21
We asked Megan to take a look at the website with us to share her first
impressions. Now reminder that Megan had not seen the website or
again heard of therapy first or gender exploratory therapy before we
looked at it here. Looking at this website, if you were a therapist looking
for resources for your client or your client's family or yourself, what
would you. On first glance? Yeah. So as I look at this, I think the first
thing that sticks out to me is this really bold print with this pretty glaring
message that I take is that there's a problem and we need to treat it.
Speaker 2 - 08:07
Yeah.
Speaker 1 - 08:07
And then there's this and we're here to help. So it basically says that
their aim is to support psychotherapists working with gender dysphoric
children, adolescents and young adults in providing high quality
evidence based mental health care and offer public education on mental
health and psychotherapy. Just noticing that number one, they missed a
period. Get an editor. But number two, anything seem off with that
because I get a very like undercover operation here. Like it is not super
explicit. Yeah.
Speaker 2 - 08:38
If someone didn't kind of know what they were looking at, I think it.
Speaker 1 - 08:42
Would be really easy to fall into kind of what I foresee as like a trap.
Again, we asked Nick to take a peek at the website with us and this was
their first impressions. So I, when I pulled up the first page there, of
course it's laid out quite beautifully. Looks like any other like therapy
page that you might want to visit. It looks quite inviting in fact. But the
wording is so Careful. Oh my gosh. And then it's so triggering the more
that I read through there. Oh God, they were covering landmines. So you
had to be very careful where you step. Not even knowing what I was
looking into necessarily just reading it felt very much like a trap. If you
could write everything in the deepest, darkest corners in the lightest pen
you could possibly write it in, that's.
Speaker 2 - 09:37
How it was written.
Speaker 1 - 09:45
I don't understand the first, the front line treatment. That language has
me tripped up a bit. But okay, yeah, therapy makes sense. Sure, I did
work a lot with trans youth, trans adults everywhere in between the
spectrum, gender non conforming to various stages of transitioning or
not transitioning. And yeah, it kind of makes sense. Therapy is a part of
that. Sure, therapy is a part of it.
Speaker 2 - 10:08
Very often therapy is a part of it. And very often therapy is one of the
first line treatments as far as if people are going to seek out medical
support in transitioning. Like anytime I have worked with an individual
who is walking through that process, therapy has been a part of that.
Obviously I'm biased because I'm a therapist and that's what I do. But
often there is a component of needing or being required to have a
mental health component of that work. So it doesn't sound unreasonable
to me by any means.
Speaker 1 - 10:44
And here's what Nick noticed with just the front hero page of this website
and their huge tagline. Psychotherapy is first line treatment for gender
dysphoria. Okay, that's one of the very first lines. Psychotherapy as a, as
first line. I don't care. Whatever. Treatment for gender dysphoria. That is
a huge trigger. Huge. Why are you treating me for gender dysphoria?
Because you know, when I go to my therapist doesn't say she's treating
me for gender dysphoria. I have gender dysphoria. She may be treating
me for that per se. That's not how she addresses it. That is awful. She's
helping me through something. You're not treating me being treated for
something that is wrong, that's dirty. Like an illness. Yes.
Speaker 2 - 11:39
Okay, like what is wrong with.
Speaker 1 - 11:41
There's nothing. But we're here to help. We're here to help. So we dug
deeper.
Speaker 2 - 11:49
Therapy first also is a professional association. You can join it as a
professional, as a licensed mental health provider also for the
professional aspect. You know, they have trainings, they have a clinician
guide, which is noted up here. And we'll talk about in just a little bit a
guide for working with what they refer to as gender questioning youth.
And they're actually an MBCC approved continuing education provider
for licensed mental health professionals. They do have MBCC approval
for any course that they should put out. So and it's a credentialing board
that approves continuing education for mental health professionals. It's a
national provider and if you get approval as an educator through them,
you don't have to submit any of your trainings individually to them. You
are just automatically approved as a continuing ed provider for
professionals.
Speaker 2 - 12:47
This organization is both a place to seek out therapy and a place for
professionals to find education and community and networking. They
work with children and adolescents and young adults primarily. That's
their big population that they focus on. They really don't focus on work
with adults much at all I don't think. And so I can only imagine as a
parent if I don't have knowledge of all of the different like range of
treatment options for my child. But I'm trying to seek support for my
child. Maybe they just came out to me or we've been having a
conversation for a while and I'm just like kind of getting online and
looking for what is out there. This seems like a very supportive, very, I
think open minded place to get started. We'll get into the reasons why,
but it's very concerning to me.
Speaker 1 - 13:42
They've done a very good job of being able to remain or sound neutral
and maybe that's why they've been approved by the, by certain boards
for training because it's really hard to find direct language. Let's get
more into what Therapy first is about. And in that I'm sure we're going to
start to discover some of the main therapists and people involved and
also other organizations that are connected to Therapy First. But yeah,
let's get involved. Well, okay, what is gender exploratory therapy? Like
what do they believe in? Is it a model? Let's get more into it.
Speaker 2 - 14:27
Yeah. So also we should note that Therapy first is a new name for this
organization. They rebranded very recently and they used to be called
the Gender Exploratory Therapy association or getta. Okay. So a lot of
things that have will come up if you are looking and doing research
further will reference Getta Geta and not Therapy First. So we want to
make sure that we note that those two organizations are the same thing.
They've just rebranded.
Speaker 1 - 14:59
The way that we are going to talk about this type of therapy is we're
going to use their practice guide.
Speaker 2 - 15:06
For clinicians and I took the L And read the entire clinical guide from start
to finish.
Speaker 1 - 15:14
And I took the L and watched the hour in some odd webinar of them
talking.
Speaker 2 - 15:20
It was a lot.
Speaker 1 - 15:21
It was a lot. And I did have to take breaks.
Speaker 2 - 15:25
So essentially, the way that therapy first, or getta describes gender
exploratory therapy is it's an exploratory approach. Okay? And again,
we're gonna. I'm gonna use this language and I'm gonna talk a little bit
about what comes up for me with it and what I've noticed and I think
what some other professionals have noticed with it as well. So just hang
in there. But they describe it as an exploratory approach, which stands in
contrast to the, quote, gender affirmative approach, which they say has
gained popularity in recent years. The gender affirmative approach
assumes that minors presenting with a wish to live in a gender role
different from their sex are transgender and that the primary role of
therapist is to help minors transition. Transition consists of varying
combinations of social transition, medical interventions, and surgical
procedures.
Speaker 2 - 16:22
They state that exploratory therapy does not have a fixed outcome such
as identification with natal sex as its goal. Instead, it is a patient
centered process which aims to explore, understand and address the
multiple intersecting factors generating distress in the young person's
life. One possible outcome is that the individual may come to identify
with their birth sex and accept their body as is. Or they may decide to
find non medical ways to live a better life while still honoring their
unique gendered experience. Or they may decide to go ahead with
gender transition and medical or surgical interventions. Even if they
have a greater understanding of the complex sources of their distress.
These outcomes are equally valid and equally legitimate. I wanted to
read that whole thing because I think it's very interesting. They put a
couple things in there on purpose, right?
Speaker 2 - 17:11
So what they do is they set up a binary between affirmating affirmative
based therapy and exploratory therapy. So they've already created what
I believe is a false binary. The other thing that they put in there very on
purpose, is that it does not have a fixed outcome and that they are open
to an individual seeking medical or surgical interventions. And what
we're going to notice throughout our conversation today is that is
patently untrue. Based on their further literature and case studies and
the way that they approach therapy and the way they speak about their
clients.
Speaker 1 - 17:57
And a lot of ways that we learned that was because we listened to their
podcast and we're going to get more into therapists that do the podcast,
but they are therapist of therapy first, they're the ones doing the traits of
the webinar consisted of These therapists, Stella O'Malley, Sasha Ayyad,
sometimes Lisa Marciano likes to jump in there and we listen to maybe
between the Both of us, 10 to 15 of their podcast episodes where they're
talking about how they do this therapy. So we're literally getting this
information directly from the trainers. And in the webinar, they
highlighted this openness to a range of outcomes. They're not trying to
convince young people that they're not trans or attempting to change
their sexual orientation. It's about helping them understand themselves
better and find a path that minimizes harm. Direct quote from the
webinar.
Speaker 2 - 18:53
Yeah. And there are many other quotes in this clinician guide that also
kind of back up that I believe their statement that they would be okay
with someone seeking medical intervention is patently untrue.
Speaker 1 - 19:12
As a therapist and for all the other clinicians listening, let me know what
you think. But are we always open to a range of outcomes? I don't
understand they're setting this up because again, Laurel talked about
this false dichotomy between gender affirming care and gender critical
care. And the idea is that in gender affirming care, there's only one
outcome. They believe the only outcome in gender affirming care is
surgical intervention and medical intervention. However, as a clinician
who has been trained in gender affirming care, the client guides the
outcomes. Here is what Marie and Amy shared about their understanding
and training of working with clients using a gender affirmative model.
Speaker 1 - 20:00
And if I were working with a kiddo who was questioning their gender
identity or wanted to work with that in session, I would just give them a
space to do that, to talk through their feelings, to provide any
information they may need. And I would try not to sway them either way.
I would try to be really neutral about it. Not feeling that being trans or
non binary is better or that being cisgender is better. I think I would just
allow them the space to talk through how they felt and I would, you
know, call them any names or pronouns that they wanted, as I would for
any client. You know, I think we should call people what they want to be
called and I would work to dispel any, like, misinformation that they had
and connect them with resources that they may need.
Speaker 1 - 20:47
But I definitely wouldn't push them either way. I think that's. They would
just probably need a space to explore it.
Speaker 2 - 20:55
My experience in offering a gender affirming model of practice, placing
intention on Using they pronouns anytime an individual being referenced
directly or indirectly, if they're preferences unknown, setting an intention
in challenging assumptions of societal norms such as hair or dress.
Speaker 1 - 21:28
That are associated with a particular gender, colors that are associated
with a particular.
Speaker 2 - 21:35
Gender, and bringing into the treatment guidance to assist the client in
approaching with curiosity themselves and how their gender fits for
them.
Speaker 1 - 21:52
Megan shared a little bit about how she approaches working with
children and families. And I also tell the parents that I work with, like
your kid is the expert on themselves, you know, and we have to begin to
trust them and really listen and hear them and value their own. Their
perspective, their own thoughts, their own opinions. I don't understand
why they're setting it up. Well, actually we do understand they're setting
this up in a way that is like, well, that's what therapy is.
Speaker 2 - 22:29
Right?
Speaker 1 - 22:29
They have this idea and I kept trying to find research and we'll get more
into it, that's not what gender affirming care is, that it's only one
outcome. So I think they're introducing this idea of range of outcomes
because they believe that when people, children or youth are coming in,
there's a pipeline that only leads to one outcome.
Speaker 2 - 22:49
Right.
Speaker 1 - 22:50
Did you get that?
Speaker 2 - 22:50
I do. And I think that they both believe and want to express to the public
that they are the ones that are open, that are truly doing therapy and
are not constrained by what they. Very often in their literature and in
subgroups that are, they're connected to gender ideology. Your sex refers
to your physical body parts, remember? But there is also something
called gender, which is how you feel inside your body and who you know
yourself to be. And your gender. How you feel on the inside doesn't
always match the sex you were called.
Speaker 1 - 23:30
When you were born.
Speaker 2 - 23:31
Okay, let's say you were born with.
Speaker 1 - 23:34
A penis and you feel like a boy inside.
Speaker 2 - 23:36
In that case, your sex and your gender match.
Speaker 1 - 23:39
But what if you were born with a penis and you know you're a girl inside,
not a boy?
Speaker 2 - 23:44
Then your sex and your gender don't match.
Speaker 1 - 23:46
Wait, what does know you're a girl inside mean anyway? Does that mean
you have to love pink things and princesses? Nope. Sometimes people
refer to things as girl.
Speaker 2 - 23:55
Things and boy things, but this is.
Speaker 1 - 23:57
Just how people sometimes classify things, usually to make it easier to
sell stuff to kids and their parents. Clothes, toys and games are for
everyone.
Speaker 2 - 24:07
You don't have to be a boy.
Speaker 1 - 24:08
Or a girl to like a certain thing. Sid, has anyone ever told you that.
Speaker 2 - 24:12
You shouldn't play with something or wear something because you're a
boy.
Speaker 1 - 24:16
Well, yes.
Speaker 2 - 24:18
The body parts you were born.
Speaker 1 - 24:20
With don't always dictate who you are, how you feel, or what you like to
play with. That's such a relief. Gender how you feel and who you.
Speaker 2 - 24:30
Know yourself to be tells you who you are.
Speaker 1 - 24:33
And there are a whole bunch of possibilities.
Speaker 2 - 24:36
Figuring out what feels right for you is just part of growing up. And so it
is really a false binary. And I love. There's a channel on YouTube that I
really love, Dr. Jamie Talks. LGBTQIA Plus, I think, is the title of the
channel. I liked how she really synthesized it so well really quickly in that
you can be exploratory and either affirmative or non affirmative.
Speaker 1 - 25:03
Right.
Speaker 2 - 25:03
So they're setting up this binary between you're either exploratory or
affirmative, when in fact what they're doing is non affirmative
exploratory therapy, and what someone else might be doing is
affirmative exploratory therapy. And that's a more accurate binary
because therapy is always exploratory or should be.
Speaker 1 - 25:26
One of the podcasts that we listened to, they were talking about how
they use pronouns or don't use, and their. Their approach that they were
teaching other therapists to do is to not use pronouns at all. What are
you going to do about names and pronouns? And this can be really tricky
because, of course, you never want to start a therapy relationship off in
a power struggle. No. So you can't make this the kind of hill you're
willing to die on. And on the other hand, you do want to leave space for
this exploratory angle. So, I mean, for therapists listening, here's a kind
of trick that I've come up with that's been really helpful. First of all,
pragmatically, in therapy, you almost never need to use pronouns
because you're speaking with the individual. Okay.
Speaker 1 - 26:17
And if I'm in a conversation with both the teenager and the parent, I still
direct the conversation at the teenager. So, for example, if the parent
says, so how is Jessica doing in therapy? I might say, you know what?
We're doing great so far this week. What we focused on is like, body
image. And what do you think? It's been going okay. Right. And I'll refer
to the teen. And it's taken a little bit of practice to get that down. But
that way I'm never putting either the parent or the teenager in a position
of conflict with one another. And I have asked clients, like, when I first
meet them, I say, you know, it's a Bit of a tradition in my practice that
we use everyone's last name. Would it be okay if I just called your last
name?
Speaker 1 - 27:01
And I remember you said in Ireland that would be quite odd, but in
America, you know, anybody who's been on a sports team or sometimes
at school, people use their last names. So in my case, you know,
someone would call me Ayad, which, it's kind of endearing, it's a little bit
buddy. So that has a warmth to it as well. And if a kid has like an
incredibly long last name, maybe just the first initial of the last name or
something like that. So this is a nice way of a. Creating a special way of
relating to each other that isn't so hyper fixated on use my pronouns.
Don't use the pronouns.
Speaker 2 - 27:37
They discourage any type of transitioning, both medical and social. Yeah,
medical transitioning often includes. It can include a number of different
things. There is no one size fits all, even medical transitioning process
and can include things like hormone therapies, puberty blockers, gender
confirmation surgeries. And we're not you all, we're not going to get into
the debates really around puberty blockers and hormone therapies today
because that truly could be just an episode in and of itself. But that's
what medical transitioning often includes. Social transition involves
clothes, names, pronouns, gender, very often gender expression,
elements changing or adjusting or exploring elements of gender
expression, a social transition. And gender exploratory therapy
discourages even that. So no form of any kind of transition is encouraged
or affirmed in gender exploratory therapy.
Speaker 2 - 28:35
And in fact, they often cite in their research or what they present as
research and sorry and their clinical guide that social transitioning is
more likely to lead to someone seeking medical transition. So they're
even creating this linear relationship saying that if you allow a young
person, because that's who we're talking about here, a child or an
adolescent or young adult to engage with a social transition of any kind,
it heightens the likelihood that they're going to enter into medical
transition. So they actively discourage all kinds of. All elements of
transition under transition.
Speaker 1 - 29:19
Under the guise of openness. Because they believe by validating a social
transition by using a pronoun, they believe that's not open. They say, oh,
well, that's closing off the range of outcomes. It's a. What would you
say? Circular.
Speaker 2 - 29:34
It's circular reasoning.
Speaker 1 - 29:35
Circular reasoning.
Speaker 2 - 29:36
And you know, I think the other thing that is really important, the other
elements that they include understanding gender exploratory therapy
that it understands that gender dysphoria emerges in a context. So
gender related distress, just like any other form of distress, occurs in a
context. It seeks to understand how this person came to develop
negative feelings about their sexed body or that the gender they were
assigned is wrong. And you'll hear a lot of this. I really want to highlight
this because it comes up over and over again that in gender exploratory
therapy, the Venn diagram is a circle of gender dysphoria. And being
trans, they do not differentiate transness from gender dysphoria under
their definitions. It's all gender dysphoria, it's all pathology. Transness is
a pathologized or state and it is not something that can exist outside of
being a pathology.
Speaker 2 - 30:38
So I think that's really important when we consider how they're
approaching this type of therapy. And I want to connect that back to
when they stated that they're open to all outcomes. It's, I just want
people to hear what they're saying. They're open to all outcomes. But
over and over again, their languaging and the way they approach
transness is that it is something to be fixed.
Speaker 1 - 31:09
They think that it's a symptom that trans identity or gender dysphoria or
gender nonconformity is a symptom of something else.
Speaker 2 - 31:22
Yeah.
Speaker 1 - 31:22
And they talk about a symptom of family developmentally, a
developmental history, a social experience. We're going to get more into
their social contagion theories in a bit. But they really think that gender
expression is a symptom. There's lots of ways for us to find dysfunctional
coping mechanisms. And gender dysphoria is arguably a dysfunctional
coping mechanism that people set upon as this is the solution to my
mental pain. And yet in this world, in this extraordinary world where
mental distress has been weaponized into kind of something to bludgeon
people with and silence people with, it's just become a horrendous issue.
And these are the most vulnerable kids. These are the autistic kids who
might one day grow up to be gay or lesbian. These are really vulnerable
kids. It's the savvy kids aren't getting caught up in this.
Speaker 1 - 32:19
It's the lost, vulnerable, sad kids that are getting lost. So they believe if
they can treat the other things or that this symptom will just magically
go away.
Speaker 2 - 32:28
Yeah. And that ultimately what they are not stating it, the ultimate goal
is to remove that trans identity or the Focus on gender.
Speaker 1 - 32:41
Nick really picked up on this point when were reviewing some of the
clinician's guide. It seemed pretty obvious to them what the goal was.
And somehow implying that it's a choice. That's not how it works. It's not
about. I didn't, I didn't choose to be trans. That's not how it works. Yeah,
I chose to be myself. That's how that worked. Because I could choose not
to be me, which is pretty painful. I can choose that. I can choose to be
someone that I'm not. People choose to do that every day. But to choose
to be yourself doesn't mean that you're choosing a different sex because
you think it's rad, because you're trying to follow all these cool social
norms. Did you decide to be a woman? Did you decide to be a man? If
you are who you fucking are?
Speaker 1 - 33:45
I think they're also trying to buy time.
Speaker 2 - 33:48
Yes, they absolutely are because they talk.
Speaker 1 - 33:50
A lot about developmental stages and they talk a lot about the lack of
evidence of the efficacy or long term studies of using medical
interventions. And I think they're trying to buy time because they never
talk about adults.
Speaker 2 - 34:04
No, they're really not focused on adults. There are several folks who are
involved in some of these organizations who have said something along
the lines of, you know, adults can do whatever they want to do. If that's
how they want to live their life. They often use terms such as lifestyle
choice, then that's fine. But they really, and they'll use these, this
languaging too, of watchful waiting. They use the term watchful waiting
quite frequently in discussions of care for trans children and trans
adolescents and delay, delay. So they literally have said that or their way
of understanding and what they have frankly lobbied for and we can talk
about, we will talk about a little about this as well, is that people should
not have the access to any form of medical affirming support or
treatment or care until they turn 25.
Speaker 2 - 35:04
So we're not even just talking about legal minors under 18. They are
really pushing for, to remove and to block access for anyone under the
age of 25 to receive any kind of medical treatment or support or
affirming care.
Speaker 1 - 35:23
Here's my plan to stop the chemical physical and emotional mutilation of
our youth. On day one, I will revoke Joe Biden's cruel policies on so called
gender affirming care. Ridiculous. A process that includes giving kids
puberty blockers, mutating their physical appearance and ultimately
performing surgery on minor children. Can you believe this? I will sign a
new executive order instructing every federal agency to cease all
programs that promote the concept of sex and gender transition at any
age. I will then ask Congress to permanently stop federal taxpayer
dollars from being used to promote or pay for these procedures and pass
a law prohibiting child sexual mutilation in all 50 states. It'll go very
quickly.
Speaker 1 - 36:16
I will declare that any hospital or health care provider that participates in
the chemical or physical mutilation of minor youth will no longer meet
federal health and safety standards for Medicaid and Medicare and will
be terminated from the program immediately. Furthermore, I will support
the creation of a private right of action for victims to sue doctors who
have unforgivably performed these procedures on minor children. It's
scary because we're going to talk about the actual dangers and harms
that could introduce waiting until 25, and there is a reason why. And
we're going to talk about the American Academy of Pediatrics, and we're
going to talk about the APA and what the recommendations are based on
research of why and when medical transition starts at a younger age.
Speaker 2 - 37:12
And, you know, a couple of things I do want to point out. They make it
very purposeful under their number. Their number one. Under what?
Exploratory therapy is not. They say it is not conversion therapy.
Speaker 1 - 37:27
They say that number maybe 100 times.
Speaker 2 - 37:29
Now, over and over again.
Speaker 1 - 37:31
So what is conversion therapy, and how is it slowly sneaking its way
back into mental health and the public sphere?
Speaker 2 - 37:39
Conversion therapists are back. Conversion therapy is a colloquial term,
and it refers to general attempts to change someone's sexual orientation
or gender identity. For a long time, some psychologists used techniques
that were essentially torture, electric shocks, or chemically induced
nausea. Today, conversion therapy looks different. Much like talk
therapy, it's with a religious advisor or a licensed therapist. For the most
part, though, the underlying goal remains the sane to change who
people are or who they love.
Speaker 1 - 38:12
My understanding from other researchers in the field is that there may
be an increase in conversion therapy for trans people in particular. It's
difficult to say conclusively with the evidence that's available right now,
because obviously it's a clandestine practice that people try and hide.
Initially, though, they will pretend to be on your side and that they
accept.
Speaker 2 - 38:34
You and that they're concerned for you.
Speaker 1 - 38:36
The goal is to get you to talk and then use what you say to hurt, shame,
or gaslight you into agreeing with them. Ultimately, they want you to
doubt or hate yourself so much that you renounce your gender identity
and never take steps towards transitioning. They want you to believe
that this is the best path for you and your family. It's caused irreparable
harm, that kind of trauma, you know, like that trauma of.
Speaker 2 - 38:57
Being forced to be someone I'm not.
Speaker 1 - 39:00
That's.
Speaker 2 - 39:01
That's what conversion therapy is. At the end of the day, you.
Speaker 1 - 39:03
Don'T get a choice. It is slow, it is insidious, it.
Speaker 2 - 39:07
Is creeping, and it is all destroying.
Speaker 1 - 39:11
None of the people I met at.
Speaker 2 - 39:12
The conference would call what they do conversion therapy per se.
Instead, it's safety, which stands for sexual attraction, fluidity,
exploration and therapy, or it's reparative therapy, or even mindfulness.
Speaker 1 - 39:25
Conversion therapists come in several flavors. Ones who try to convince
you to stop being trans because it's sinful, Ones who think that you're
trans because of some sort of trauma, Ones who think it's due to
internalized misogyny, and ones who will try to convince you that you
should just learn to suffer untreated.
Speaker 2 - 39:41
Gender dysphoria because it makes you a better person.
Speaker 1 - 39:43
Figuring this out is surprisingly simple. Conversion therapists will rarely
use your preferred name and basically never use your preferred
pronouns unless they match your sex assigned at birth. And one of the
questions is, are you going to use their preferred name? Are you going to
use their preferred pronouns? Would it be okay if I just called your last
name?
Speaker 2 - 40:00
Clinicians I spoke to were adamant they could treat trans kids with a
similar approach they used for gay people.
Speaker 1 - 40:05
Texas Republicans recently endorsed a therapy that.
Speaker 2 - 40:08
Purports to turn gay people straight. Defending conversion therapy. From
an allegedly scientific point of view.
Speaker 1 - 40:14
It'S the understanding that same sex behavior is an attempt to repair
your childhood emotional hurt. And gender dysphoria is arguably a
dysfunctional coping mechanism that people set upon as this is the
solution to my mental pain.
Speaker 2 - 40:31
States ban on conversion therapy for minors In Alabama, Florida, and
Georgia, the federal 11th Circuit Court of Appeals ruled that banning
conversion therapy violates the first Amendment.
Speaker 1 - 40:40
An appellate court found that law which stops therapists from trying to
change a child's sexual orientation or gender identity violates the First
Amendment, a ban now declared unconstitutional according to this 2 to
1 11th Circuit ruling.
Speaker 2 - 40:55
And indiana, state politicians recently passed a law preventing local
governments from outlawing this practice. Separately, Nebraska now
mandates minors who are seeking medical care for gender dysphoria to
undergo 40 hours of therapy that does not merely affirm their identity.
Speaker 1 - 41:09
In our current culture, in which children are being indoctrinated with
transgender belief from the moment they're out of the womb. They are
being indoctrinated into gender confusion from preschool forward. So no,
with a gender confused child, the family absolutely needs our help.
Speaker 2 - 41:29
As physicians and counselors begin to help.
Speaker 1 - 41:32
Gender dysphoric children embrace their bodies.
Speaker 2 - 41:35
If we don't stand up, who will? Confirmed for me how a political
movement that sees transness as a problem includes people who believe
conversion therapy is a solution. That's who's waiting in the shadows if
anti trans extremists get their way.
Speaker 1 - 41:53
What other therapies do you hear is saying we're not a conversion
therapy, Right? I don't know many others that I've been trained on.
Speaker 2 - 42:00
I don't think I need to say that. I think that's pretty apparent. So, I mean,
I've never had to convince someone that I'm not doing conversion
therapy. So yeah, if we're trying to convince someone, I would be curious
about why that's so important.
Speaker 1 - 42:15
It is not conversion therapy. And just for a little context here, conversion
therapy is a term that describes a type of intervention or practice of
attempting to turn homosexual people heterosexual. But what's
happened in more contemporary times is that this label of conversion
therapy has been applied to any type of therapeutic interaction or
relationship which attempts to help a young person or any person with
gender dysphoria explore what the meaning behind it could be. Or
anything essentially, that is not a concretizing or an affirming of their
stated gender identity conflates two very distinct practices. One being
an attempt to convert a gay person to a straight person, and any
attempt to just simply help an individual understand themselves better,
particularly in the context of their emergent gender dysphoria.
Speaker 2 - 43:12
I want to go back to Dr. Jamie because she referenced a really important
distinction based on the UN Human Rights Council definition of
conversion therapy. They define conversion therapy as encompassing
any approach that denies, delays or problematizes a person's gender.
Speaker 1 - 43:34
We've already covered those three topics.
Speaker 2 - 43:37
So, you know, they do say over and over again repeatedly that they are
not conversion therapy based on their definition, but based on someone
else's. The UN Human Rights Council, the Trevor Project. I think they do
fall under that category. There are more professionals speaking about
this.
Speaker 1 - 43:57
Hey, it's Dr. Jamie. My pronouns are she or they. I'm an associate clinical
professor of psychiatry. I am a researcher and I'm somebody who works
in the space of gender affirming care. I thought I would talk about a
term, gender exploration. This is a term I have used in a trans positive
context.
Speaker 2 - 44:17
Within the gender affirming care model.
Speaker 1 - 44:20
However, I have recently heard that this term has been appropriated by
individuals offering interventions that are not supportive and could be
labeled conversion therapy. So within the gender affirming model, when
we talk about gender exploration, we're talking about walking with the
individual, the client, the patient, as they begin to unpack their gender.
This can take many different forms. It can come in the form of supporting
social transition, talking about the benefits and risks of medical
transition, choices related to legal transition. There's a lot of different
things that gender exploration can entail. But within the gender affirming
model, the idea is that the person leading the way is the patient, is the
client. It's not the provider trying to deny or question how somebody
identifies.
Speaker 2 - 45:29
We're definitely not the only ones pointing this out, obviously, which is
why they've had to repeatedly state that they're not over and over
again. But there is definitely plenty of information out there regarding
why folks are identifying this therapy as conversion therapy. And I do
want to note that we're going to get into some of the other organizations
that are tied to this model of therapy, and at least two of them are
designated hate groups by the Southern Poverty Law Center.
Speaker 1 - 46:01
Yeah, something else that they talked about in the webinar, they use this
idea of a false concept of transition. As I was taking my notes, watching
the webinar like a good student, and it said, quote, it can be a false
concept to believe that transition will solve all your problems.
Speaker 2 - 46:19
Oh, yes, they do talk about this.
Speaker 1 - 46:21
Quite frequently, quite frequently, like, it's not going to solve your
problems. Like, look at all the evidence that shows people are unhappy
after transition. They believe in gender ideology, that there's a false idea
that all your problems are solved once you transition or any type of
affirming practices. And I believe that this is a flawed understanding.
Nick shares a little bit about how actually getting treatment earlier on
could have been helpful in their life and in their experience. The love, the
support that I had in my early 30s and on, had I had that from the get
go.
Speaker 2 - 47:05
I can assure you that I would.
Speaker 1 - 47:06
Have been a much happier human the majority of my life. I can
guarantee you that I would have far less therapy than what I have now.
Speaker 2 - 47:16
I think it's fascinating because I kept finding that as a standout over and
over again as I was reading. And yet they just take such great, they go to
such great pains to say that exactly thing. But in support of their model,
they include some case studies. Well, they refer to this person as Emma,
even though this person, this young person has requested repeatedly to
not be called that. But so they refer to this person as Emma and they
have some dialogue. The therapist says, my role is to be your therapist,
not your parents therapist. That means I'll do my best and to understand
your experience and treat you like a whole person. You're not just a big
walking gender identity. Right?
Speaker 2 - 48:05
It, to me it's just really fascinating and this was one of the first things I
noticed as I was looking on this right out the gate. In their attempts to
minimize conversation around gender, to avoid conversation around
gender, to not use pronouns, to use weird nicknames instead of names,
to you know, all of this stuff, they've created this big boogeyman of
gender. Like they're emphasizing it most of all in. Through all of these
attempts to de. Emphasize it and to ignore it and to treat it as a
symptom.
Speaker 1 - 48:37
Let's just talk about therapeutic skill of that last statement. You're not
just one big walking. Right? That is not even an open ended question for
these people that are really into range of outcomes. And we're open and
we believe informed consent. That that statement alone. Right. That's
not an open ended question.
Speaker 2 - 48:56
This is the same therapist that refuses to use someone's name if it's not
the name assigned by their parents. That whole dynamic to me is very
not client centered. Like why wouldn't you just use somebody's name?
Like why do you want to force calling them a nickname? It's just so odd
to me.
Speaker 1 - 49:19
But they also say that informed consent is one of their most important
pieces. And autonomy.
Speaker 2 - 49:27
Right?
Speaker 1 - 49:27
They, they truly say autonomy. But how is that supporting autonomy?
Speaker 2 - 49:32
It's not. It's telling someone, I'm not going to call you by your name. Why
don't you pick a nickname in my office so that I feel more comfortable.
Speaker 1 - 49:40
Do it.
Speaker 2 - 49:41
Okay. I mean, and there are so many other issues with these case
studies. Like the language of using sex change and referring to
someone's identity as like a part of them, like a trans part of them. And
like the other parts of them, that's like a real part of that. I mean all of
this is just the languaging is wild. We could pick apart this for years.
Speaker 1 - 50:07
Oh, for years.
Speaker 2 - 50:08
But the other one that I really wanted to highlight, which I thought was
really fascinating, that they refer to as Alina at the end, there's a
summary of thoughts or progress or prognosis about each case study.
One of the things in Alina's summary, therapist Writes, I hope that
working through these issues. So therapist is referring to sibling rivalry,
Oedipal conflict between Alina and the father and mother. I mean, it
goes very Freudian real fast that Lisa. I don't know because it doesn't say
therapist's name in the clinician guide, but there is a lot of languaging
around underlying, like, fam, unconscious family rivalry, oedipal
complexes. I mean, when was a lot, like, I think I wrote, like, what
century are we in?
Speaker 2 - 51:04
I know some people are still like psychoanalysts, but, wow, we're really
stretching to try and come up with some kind of an explanation for this
individual's identity as being trans, like an Oedipal complex. Okay. But
they wrote, I hope that working through these issues will result in a
resolution of Alina's gender dysphoria and demands to transition. Their
hope is not that Alina will find a path that fits for them and that they're
open to any path that Alina decides is the best one for them. Their hope
is that Alina will not transition and their demands will be gone. And that's
it.
Speaker 1 - 51:50
Exploratory therapy is open to a range of outcomes. We're actually really
trying to begin a.
Speaker 2 - 51:57
Process of exploration and dialogue that will.
Speaker 1 - 51:59
Help young people understand themselves better, how they want to live,
and what kind.
Speaker 2 - 52:04
Of life is actually going to be.
Speaker 1 - 52:05
Most liberating for them and not just seeing somebody as often. Sasha
would say a walking gender identity. Therapists had to affirm gender
identity without.
Speaker 2 - 52:16
Any question or exploration. You had to affirm in my place.
Speaker 1 - 52:21
Of work, where I carry out my counseling.
Speaker 2 - 52:24
Their posters plastered all over the wall from Stonewall were a
particularly militant bunch. And the poster said, some people are trans.
Get over it. And I thought, what a way to shut down discussions and
dialogue. And I wasn't prepared to get over it. I wasn't prepared to get
over it.
Speaker 1 - 52:43
I wrote down some direct quotes, again from the webinar. It fits right into
that. So because they think trans identity is a subtle way to manage the
stressors of being a teen and also the context in which that, like,
presents itself inside of you, they say therapist should be more directive
in therapy and not stay out of the way of the process. In the context of
identity exploration and the way that she chose to finish that sentence
off by radically transforming their body, their sense of self in the world,
and how they relate to others. There's this paternalistic idea that
because of a child's developmental stage or certain vulnerabilities, that
they can't have those opinions or ideas or they can't feel that way, and
that it's therapist's job to tell them, oh, this is a phase. This is the vibe
I'm getting now.
Speaker 1 - 53:43
I didn't get that a direct quote, but the sense is they're like, this is a
phase. Let's get you through it. And it's our job to be a little more direct.
So I will say that's different than a lot of therapeutic approaches. Is that
directiveness? Do you think that is coming up in the case studies?
Speaker 2 - 53:59
Oh, absolutely. And I think it is very directive because they have an end
goal. And how can you not be directive if you have a specific end goal in
your mind? And the end goal, whether they say it or not over and over
again in both the treatment guidelines and the case studies, is trans
identity is eliminated, or at least that no transition is taking place.
Speaker 1 - 54:27
Plus, there's this feeling that gender is this exception to everything, you
know, everything you ever learned as a therapist. It doesn't apply to
gender. So you feel very lost. We really believe in a kind of back to basics
approach. And it's so important because when you have this emerging
population with a new kind of presenting problem, no serious country
should be telling its children that they were born with the wrong gender.
A concept that was never heard of. In all of human history, nobody's ever
heard of this. What's happening today. It was all when the radical left
invented it just a few years ago. It's very seductive to latch onto a new
exotic kind of novel therapy approach. They also say language like, is
this a healthy developmental call or a psychic retreat?
Speaker 1 - 55:21
And in their podcast, they talk a lot about, well, I had a lot of struggles as
a youth. And wouldn't that have been neat to find something that's the
answer to all my problems.
Speaker 2 - 55:31
Stuck fantasy quality about it, Sasha already alluded is he came in with
this really kind of rigid fantasy. It's like, I'm going to become a girl and
then everything's going to be.
Speaker 1 - 55:40
Great and I just need to reveal.
Speaker 2 - 55:42
My womanhood so that, you know, because it's like, yeah, this might be
right for him and it will probably solve.
Speaker 1 - 55:48
Some problems and create new ones because that's just the reality of
life. And so, you know, if you're, if.
Speaker 2 - 55:54
You'Re dealing with someone who's not holding.
Speaker 1 - 55:56
That level of compassion complexity, then they.
Speaker 2 - 55:59
Might be kind of burrowing into this kind of ideology, I guess, to avoid.
Speaker 1 - 56:05
Thinking about things or feeling Things. So when I first heard about the
idea of blocking children's puberty, I literally stood still in the street
saying, oh, you can't do that. That's blocking the very thing that will
actually help these kids. Honestly, my puberty was harrowing. It was a
train wreck. It was a terrible time, but it was what I needed to go through
to come out. The other side. Was invited to take part in a film actually
called Trans Kids. It's time to Talk. This is 2018. The concept of the film
was just to ask, could any of the 4000% rise in female adolescents
seeking medical transition? Could any of them be like me and actually
better off going through puberty naturally, having a sexual awakening,
becoming a woman, and becoming very happy? There's a false belief
that it solves all your problems.
Speaker 1 - 56:52
Like, this is why I don't feel that I connect with my peers. This is why I
have severe depression. And they think it's this magic ticket or this, like,
magical thing that gives people something to hold onto. But they say,
let's break it down and figure out, well, why don't you feel like you're
accepted by your peers? Why do you feel so different? Why are you
struggling with social anxiety?
Speaker 2 - 57:17
Well, I think it's interesting because they reference, like, Erickson's
conflicts a lot in development and how it's also like, a way to resolve
identity and that identity conflict in adolescence. And I do think that
there can be a potential for anything to be seen as well. Once I do this,
I'll feel okay. Once I do that, I'll feel okay. Could it be that sometimes
because children and adolescents think more concretely and have less
developed ability to see realistic future consequences that could come
up. But I think it's in bad faith to assume that every person that walks in
your door is thinking that. And I think for most children and teenagers, it
does help them feel better to be affirmed in who they are. I.
Speaker 2 - 58:13
I just don't know why we have to set up such a binary of, like, this is
either not going to solve all your problems or it's nothing. Yeah, like, of
course we know that. Of course that's not true. Again, this is a, this false
dichotomy that they're setting up and putting this on these children and
adolescents, like, saying that they believe this when we don't even know
if they believe this. They're assuming that this is the case and this is the
rationale for why all these kids and all these adolescents are. And young
people are like, walking through their door. Rather than starting from
what could be a more exploratory baseline, to use their verbiage.
Speaker 1 - 58:57
I think that it's a really good time to get into some of their reasoning and
rationale. So this particular clinical idea comes from the social contagion
and rapid onset gender dysphoria, which are not actual real terms.
Speaker 2 - 59:12
No.
Speaker 1 - 59:13
Or based on evidence, probably some of that is social contagion. You
know, it's sort of this is the thing to do got riz instead of charisma. That's
a trend. So are Stanley Cups and whatever that aging Dr. Beat song
that's all over my FYP is. But being trans, that's not a passing FAD. Back
in 2018, this researcher, Lisa Lippmann, published this paper claiming
that many kids, teens and young adults who were coming out as trans
were actually CIS and they were just being misled or misinformed by
social media or wanted to fit in with their friends. She coined a term for
this rapid onset gender dysphoria, or rogd, which she used to describe
the phenomenon of a young person suddenly identifying as trans due to
some sort of social influence or contagion.
Speaker 1 - 59:59
Basically, her research suggested that the same way you feel like you
need a knockoff Stanley cup, after seeing Stanley cups all over your fyp,
a person might suddenly decide that they're trans if a bunch of their
friends start doing so, or if they read about it online. And Lippmann
argued that these individuals shouldn't have access to gender affirming
care, since in her view, they aren't actually trans. But it's all based on
bad science. Lippmann didn't survey any actual trans youth and
purposefully sourced many of her interviews from online forums for
parents questioning the medicalization of trans youth. Since Lippmann's
study was published, researchers have been unable to actually replicate
her findings.
Speaker 1 - 01:00:34
A 2023 paper that relied on a survey of over 27,000 trans people across
America found that whether people started to understand themselves as
trans, as kids, teens or adults, most waited a very long time to tell
anybody else. The median time between their personalization and their
first coming out was over 10 years. If anything, social contagion theory is
the trend. Not being trans. After watching the presentation, after looking
through the clinical guides, I was wondering, what did they provide that
this is an evidence based therapy? They did not provide any specific
evidence to support the gender exploratory therapy model or approach.
Instead, they really just focused on outlining principles and arguing
against the dominant gender affirmative model. And they didn't really
share because I don't think there is any evidence around that.
Speaker 1 - 01:01:24
Up until very recently, gender affirmative treatments were considered
the gold standard treatment for young people with gender dysphoria.
However, recently some questions are beginning to emerge about
whether this is in fact the best treatment. And we have looked at the
research very carefully in collaboration with segum, the Society for
Evidence Based Gender Medicine, and have also been very influenced by
a number of independent systematic reviews that have been performed
by Sweden, Finland and the United Kingdom, which have all raised
serious questions about gender affirmative treatment. The presenters in
this webinar said that they were working with, quote, Society for
Evidence Based Gender Medicine, which we're going to get into, and that
they're working with them and using empirical evidence to support their
claims that is why this could be considered an evidence based because
they're using this particular organization's quote unquote evidence.
Speaker 1 - 01:02:22
So they did say that. And they also really cherry pick information about
the risk of gender affirming treatment. So we didn't even get into that,
but they go a lot of into the risk of gender affirming treatments and they
really kind of just cherry pick information and we can debunk all of that.
It's against a lot of the scientific consensus. So anyhow, I just want to
point out that they truly didn't produce any evidence that this therapy is
actually a frontline approach.
Speaker 2 - 01:02:51
No, it's all they do cite many sources in the clinician guide that you can't.
You can go online and download it. It's a PDF. You can access it for free.
You can look at what they cite as sources in the guide. But no, it's not
based on their treatment model. It's all based on prior evidence around
that they picked and chosen, mostly focused on medical transition and
detransition rather than how helpful their model is. They focus on how,
quote, unquote unhelpful they believe other models are. Yeah, right.
Speaker 1 - 01:03:32
I think that's a good general overview of the gender exploratory therapy
model. All right, that was a lot. And there's still more. In fact, as we
continue to research and edit and look for clips, we just keep uncovering
more. But as we've explored in part one, Therapy first presents itself as a
neutral and evidence based organization offering an alternative
approach in therapy to working with individuals experiencing gender
dysphoria. However, as we began to uncover their practices and
principles raised significant ethical and clinical concerns, mainly around
the misrepresentation of gender affirming care and the reinforcement of
many problematic frameworks. But what we came to find was that
Therapy first doesn't exist in isolation. Its influence stretches far beyond
its own walls, its own little group of gender.
Speaker 1 - 01:04:33
A Wider Lens Podcast it's connected to a network of organizations and
individuals that collectively shape public policy, professional standards,
and societal attitudes toward gender identity and care. In part two, we'll
delve into these connections, examining the organizations aligned with
Therapy first, their shared ideologies, and their impact on the broader
conversation around gender. Affirming Care by understanding these
networks, we can better grasp how narratives about gender and identity
are shaped and why it matters. We look forward to seeing you in part
two.
Speaker 2 - 01:05:11
So as a part of this series, we decided to we wanted to do something a
little bit extra. So we will also put a link in the show notes where you can
purchase some merch that we have designed. We will show them here.
And with these specific designs, when you purchase them, 100% of the
proceeds are going to go to Advocates for Trans Equality. Advocates for
Trans Equality is an advocacy and support organization that does all
kinds of different work around trans rights and human rights, litigation,
organizing policy, voter engagement, name change project, ID
documents, legal services. So we really want to support those folks who
are on the ground in the game doing that really important advocacy
work, especially as we're moving forward into 2025 and kind of looking
at some very scary pictures of what future legislation is going to include.
Speaker 2 - 01:06:22
And so we would love if you would do something nice for yourself and
buy a little piece of merch and then that money will go to a good cause.
And of course, if you just want to donate to Advocates for Trans Equality
directly, we will put their link in the show notes as well. And you can
absolutely do that. And we do encourage you to do that if it was helpful
or informative and you want to hear us talk more about these things and
let us do this awful research and you don't have to hit that subscribe
button.
Speaker 1 - 01:06:54
We'll do it for you and give.
Speaker 2 - 01:06:55
Us a rating and review. That would be great if you are listening on the
podcast because that helps other people see that we're putting this out
and maybe have access to it.
Speaker 1 - 01:07:05
Yeah, and you can also rate or review my outfit. I wore all black for this
episode because it was like, yeah, it was like very apropos dark.